BY IRVIN RIVERA

SOMAN CHAINANI, New York Times Bestselling author of THE SCHOOL FOR GOOD AND EVIL series sat down with us to talk about his latest book BEASTS AND BEAUTY and the upcoming release of the Netflix film adaptation of THE SCHOOL FOR GOOD AND EVIL.

Interviewing a successful writer could be a bit intimidating but working and speaking with SOMAN was a wonderful experience, it was fun, it was liberating. We were listening to Madonna the whole time we’re shooting on set. And just like Madonna, Soman is a rule breaker who carves his own path. Rules will never stop Soman from sharing the stories that he needed to tell. 

He is bold, unapologetic, sincere, and just genuinely encourages you to ask questions, to examine what is presented to you, and to not take things as they seemingly are.

In this exclusive interview, we not only spoke about breaking rules, but also talked about Fairy Tales and how these stories could hold the keys to unlocking the deep, dark parts of ourselves, exploring our childhood traumas, the universal, global appeal of telling relatable stories, writing, writer's block, and more.

Hi Soman, how are you?

I am doing well. 

Thank you for the time today. Really appreciate it.

Oh, yes. My pleasure. Thanks for doing that shoot.e were very efficient and we got it done.

What inspired you to delve deeper and retell popular stories through different perspectives in Beasts and Beauty?

I think the issue is I grew up. Everyone grows up with their first exposure to storytelling. And some people get Dr. Seuss, some people have sort of folktales told to them by their parents. For me, it was Disney, I was sort of plopped in front of the television to watch Disney fairy tales again and again and again. And that's where I learned about stories. I learned happily ever after. I learned that the prince is always blonde. I learned that the princess has to sort of wait for the Prince to kill the witch. You know, these sort of basic tenets that if they're fed to you young over and over and over again, you just take them at face value. And I obviously wasn't the only one, I think an entire generation grew up kind of Disney-fed by storytelling. And it was only once I got to college and learned the original stories that I started to realize how sort of robbed we were, of the kind of the intricacy and the nuance between good and evil. This idea that in the original stories, sometimes the princess died at the end, sometimes the witch won and the prince wasn't always blonde. And it was just, you know, there were much more variants. And the fact that these movies were global.
That like Snow White wasn't a European story, there was a Snow White story in Egypt and China, hundreds of years before the ones in Europe, and that these stories were part of our DNA. So no matter where you went in the world, there was a Cinderella story, a Red Riding Hood story. A Snow White story, sure the details were different, the characters were different but the stories were the same. And so I started thinking about how that evolution, reinvention of the stories that had happened over time and stopped with us, because of Disney, those stories became the canon, and every new generation learned that version of the story and that was it. 

And so forever, unless there's a change, we're just going to keep growing up as the world technologically progresses, our storytelling is going to stay in the 1950s with this happily ever after. So my goal was to reinvent the stories and the way they were meant to be, which is to create that balance between good and evil and give more of an edge, a more realistic edge to what the story should be about.

I love that because it makes it more relatable to a broader audience. Like what you were saying, I've read the original stories back then too. And I was like, this is dark. It's sexy. It's not totally PG at all.

100%. And we've forgotten the point of the story. So the point of the stories is not to entertain six year old's and sell them stuffed animals and get them to go on a roller coaster. The point of the story was to get teenagers to understand life lessons and what could happen to them. So if you look at Sleeping Beauty, the whole idea of the original Sleeping Beauty was a princess who falls in love with the prince gets totally enamored with him, and then falls into this 100 year sleep that he's supposed to save her from. And when she wakes up, she's pregnant, and the prince is nowhere to be found. So that is a highly relatable story in the world. I can understand why you would tell that story to a teenager. And the Disney version is, of course, completely ridiculous and has nothing to do with any of these lessons. But to go back to this kind of visceral lesson they were trying to teach. These stories were meant to scare you a little, they're meant to scare you into situations you would face in life. And let you reenact that fear by experiencing this stories. And they're not meant to be comfort, they're not meant to always have the good guy win. So I think that was my goal, is to return them to that survival guides to life.

I love that because it really is a survival guide to life if you look at it that way. And is there a specific story or stories that you enjoyed retelling the most?

I think maybe the three that really got to me were Sleeping Beauty because I wanted to bring that element back. So in my story, it's about a prince, not a princess, because I I'd like the idea of switching the gender and having a prince wake up. And every morning he woke up, no one could tell, but he knew that someone was drinking his blood at night. He would wake up with bite marks on him somewhere. And he knew that someone was sucking his blood. And the idea that something is happening to you that you can't explain and that no one will believe, I think it's sort of a universal kind of coming out story and not just about being gay or you know, on the spectrum of LGBT or whatever. But everybody has a secret I think, to some extent. Everyone has it coming out at some point in their life where they're holding a secret they need to reveal it, you know, whatever that secret is. And I think that's a universal story that we carry around something that we feel like no one will understand, and that we're afraid of. So that was one that really spoke to me.

Hansel and Gretel, because I wanted to redo it- about the way that I experienced Indian food growing up. I felt like was such an intoxicating, kind of sensory sumptuous experience. And I felt like with the original Hansel and Gretel, sure it's about gingerbread and kind of cheesy candy stuff, but I felt like if I can make it about this kind of like sensory, real flavorful experience that somehow would add more depth to it. 

And then the third story that really struck me was Blue Beard, because I feel like a lot of people don't know that story. And it's one of my favorites about a rich man who thinks he can buy any wife and sort of command her to her submission. And so I felt like that's a story that still exists in our world, the idea that a man thinks he can buy loyalty in a wife, or in my case, in a companion because I have an old man who goes after teenage boys from orphanages. So I like the lessons that felt still relevant today.

These are brilliant, because as you're saying, it happens today, and anyone who will pick up your book will be like, hold on a sec, this is not just my usual fairy tale, this is actually what's happening in me, in my neighbors, in my friends. It's so relatable. 

Well also, what's funny I think is, I always thought that if you went around to everybody and said, what's your favorite fairy tale? Everyone's going to have a different answer. Because whatever your personal trauma is, it is going to tell you which fairy tale you like the best. 

It's just always like, whatever resonates with you is going to be the one you like. There's one that is the best, it just depends on your experience. And so my test for this collection was always I wanted that same reaction I wanted when you gave the book to somebody, and you went around to 30 people and said, what's your favorite story in the collection? That it would never match, and that's the one thing we're seeing. No matter who you go to, everyone has a different story. Even my mom had completely unexpected story that resonated with her. But it's because of her history. So whatever your history is, whatever you're facing in life, whatever your secret is, the whole idea is that there should be a fairy tale that speaks to you.

I love it, because it's like, the stories here are like keys that will unlock your inner psyche, or trigger the childhood traumas you have. It's incredible. That's crazy.

We've missed that. Yes, it's nice to at least open the door to that to come back. 

And in creating this book, what are the challenges that you've encountered in creating this book and how did you rise above these challenges?

The funny thing is, when I'm writing the book, I'm never thinking about putting it out for the audience or anything like that. I'm just trying to chase the rabbit of inspiration, kind of and just sort of see where it ends up. So I think it felt very kind of fluid and dreamlike in the way I was writing it. It felt very free. The only time I struggled was when it was all done. Because then there was this question of the publisher and everybody, my agent and everybody's asking the same question, who's the audience? Because in today's audience, you either have to do 9 to 12, 13 to 18, or 18 and up. And the original fairytales never have that distinction, the original fairytales were for everybody, the whole family could find the different layers of them in it. And so we really just decided to try something new and go after that all audience kind of strategy and to say it's for 10 and up, because under 10, it's a little too edgy. But, if you're ten and up, read it with your family, read it with your friends. Read it with your older brother. And what's cool is, in the US it's published for 10 and up and in the UK, it's published for adults. So everywhere it's found its own place to put the book. But I think that was, the challenge ultimately became its strength, because we're able to go and say, look, these are like the original tales, you can't categorize them for age, because they're meant to be ageless and timeless.

I guess that's where its brilliance lies. It's timeless, it crosses all these boundaries that were set, anybody can read it and anybody can unearth something from themselves.

Yes, sometimes I think what's interesting is, I always strive to go at the issue directly. So if they're saying, you can't publish a book for all ages, because it doesn't work, instead of trying to shoehorn it into a category. My argument is well, then let's try to break the rules a little. I think I've always liked what we were talking about, I was such a Madonna fan growing up, because she just wasn't into rules. If there was a rule, her intent was to be a brat and break it down. And I think I've been like that on the publishing side, since I started writing- since School for Good and Evil. For School for Good and Evil, they must have sent me a list of at least 50 or 60 things that were not allowed to be in the book. And I changed none of them. Because I was like, listen, this is my first book. I don't know your rules but I don't agree. There were so many rules back then. My book was technically for 13 and under. They didn't want any romance, no kissing, boys and girls were not allowed to be in the same room overnight. There were so many rules. And that's just like, I'm not going to do any of these. So I think it's just my nature. Maybe it's being a middle child, maybe it's being a Leo, I just think I don't like following rules that I didn't make.

You're creating your own path, creating your own rules.

Because if you just give me a rule, I'm just not into it. I have to believe it for myself.

So I meant to ask this whenever I meet writers. What is your take on the writer's block?

You know, I don't really get writer's block so much, because to me, I think I diagnosed what it is early on. And writer's block to me is when you're trying to force the story, at least in my case, force it in the wrong direction. So if I have a block or it's not working, usually what I'll do honestly, I'll just kill my main character. So I'll write a paragraph and be like, they'll be in the middle of some big battle, and then I'll be like, and then took the sword and stabbed it in his own heart and died. And I'll sit there and I'll be like, no wait, and then I'll hear this little voice inside me or feel something inside me be like, no, that's not what's supposed to happen. And then I'll realize that I was, maybe I was trying to get him to save the princess. And I was trying to find every way for him to get to save the princess. But that's not what's meant to happen. He's meant to abandon her. So often, if you're forcing something in a direction, and you're meant to be doing the opposite or something else, your brain will just block you. So that you stop, we evaluate, and then go in a different direction. I compare it to like, if you watch an ant in a corner, it'll just keep ramming into a corner. And then eventually, it'll be like, oh, and then turn in the complete opposite direction, and then go on its way. And so I think it's that, it's you've gone in the wrong direction.

I love that, very well put.

It avoids me having writer's block. Once I realized that, that was maybe eight years ago, I don't think I've ever had a time where… I had a writer’s block. Sure there's sections and scenes and books that are exceedingly difficult. But in terms of just being blocked, once I made that realization I've never had that again. Yes. 

You mentioned earlier the School for Good and Evil. How excited are you for the film to come out?

I mean, it's crazy. We just announced more cast today. I mean, the cast is like, it feels like a Wes Anderson movie. It's like everybody's in this movie. It's you have Charlize Theron, Kerry Washington, Laurence Fishburne and Michelle Yeoh, Patti LuPone, Rachel Bloom... I mean, it's just unbelievable. Plus all the kids, Sophia Anne Caruso and Sofie Wylie and so I just think Paul Feig, the director, is such an attractor of amazing talent and such a visionary, that it was kind of this awesome experience of being able to work with someone so collaborative, and brilliant at what they do. And at the same time, kind of sit back and relax and know that it was in the safest possible hands. It's like working with one of the best directors in the world. So, I think it just has been a little bit like a dream, I can just kind of enjoy a very faithful adaptation that has its own complete identity. And there'll be the books, and they'll be the movies, and if you're a fan of one, you'll enjoy the other. And I think that's the best possible situation. So, we'll see. There are sort of ways to go in terms of effects and music and all that stuff. 

I'm glad you mentioned that like fans of the books will be fans of the books. And if you love the book, you're going to love the movie, because that's great. It's like promising something new for the new audience.

100%. And to me, the one thing I was very kind of strict about over that it's been in development for seven, eight years, and the one thing I was a bit of an A-hole about was, I didn't want it to be a beat for beat... of the book. Because I've seen that in Harry Potter, the first two, and then Hunger Games, and I was very bored. Because...

You already know what's happening.

You know it’s happening, and your imagination did it much better. There's no way your imagination can compete with, I mean, a movie can compete with a slavish kind of retread of the material. And so it was very important to me that it had a vision and it had a take and an interpretation that it was a version of the story that wasn't trying to compete with the complete accuracy and authenticity of exactly what was on the page. Because then you do get the best of both worlds, you get to love the book for what the books are, you get to go watch the movie, have your own experience, and sort of have those two things, be a dialogue with each other. So I think that's what I'm excited for. I'm excited for the fans of the books to then go watch the movie, and the fans of the movie that go read the books and have two different experiences.

And I really love that you said that you can't compete with your imagination, because that's really what it is. And when I've read something first, before I watch a movie adaptation, my brain goes to that place where I imagined this differently, and in a lot of ways kind of way better. And then the sudden disappointment comes. You're right. 

I'll give you an example. In the books, obviously, because it's a school, I had uniforms, very strict uniforms for good girls, the good boys, the evil boys, the evil girls and when you come to a movie, if you're going to be really strict about interpreting the book, you're going to put them in uniforms again, but uniforms are boring visually, do you know what I mean? The opportunity that you have when you can free them of the uniforms and give each character their unique way of interpreting a dress code or something like that is so much more productive, so it's things like that, where you, I was just like don't treat this like the Bible because otherwise it's going to be flat. It's not going to jump. And so I think that was the important thing early on and I think it was important all the way through and then once Paul came on, then you have somebody who's able to do that completely, because they have such a strong vision and such an incredible mind. He's able to run with it.

I love it. And this is so exciting for fans of the books and for people like me who is really excited to see the movie. 

Yes, yes. I think everyone's going to be excited to see it when it comes.

So my final question, if you were a book, what book would you be and why? 

You know, it's funny. I used to read Anne Rice as a teenager, that was my introduction to reading and her stuff was so kind of sexy and edgy, and taboo. I mean, my mom used to catch me reading some of her erotica when I was 13 and 14, and I just would see my mom be like, uh yeah, yeah, what are you doing?! But she didn't know what to say. Because it was like, if she took it away, she knew I would find it again, because I found it the first time so she just gave up. But I think that's what it was. It was like that early kind of Anne Rice, the books, the sensory of language, the ability to use a book to completely shatter boundaries and taboos. I always kind of wanted to be like the Madonna of young adult literature or the Anne Rice of young adult literature where if you pick up a book by me, you know you're going to get in some trouble, you know? 

Love it. 

That was the goal. And I think as long as I stay true to that reputation, I'll be happy.

I don't know why when you said trouble, in my head I just imagined a book dedicated to you and that the title is trouble.

These days, everyone's worried about getting cancelled or being called problematic. And I'm like, why am I not cancelled yet?  I am the opposite viewpoint of like, well, if I'm not cancelled, I'm not doing my job. So I think to be provocative and push the buttons and make people ask the questions. That's why I'm here.

We need that. That's what art is for you.

Yes, 100%. 100%.

Soman, thank you so much for the time.

My pleasure.