BY IRVIN RIVERA

Disney Plus' Doogie Kamealoha actor JEFFREY BOWYER-CHAPMAN opened up some pages of his life to A BOOK OF in this very insightful interview. We not only talked about his experiences in Hawaii while filming the show and playing his character Charles Zeller, we also went on a deep dive about LGBTQIA+ visibility and representation in mainstream media, colonialism, intergenerational wisdom, embedded false narratives in different cultures, the toxic and dark side of social media, speaking up and using your voice to celebrate and uplift people, finding your purpose and more. 

The charming and bright Canadian actor can also be seen as Jay Carter in the Lifetime comedy drama series UnReal, he also appeared several times on on RuPaul's Drag Race, He's in American Horror Story as Andre Stevens and he was one of the Main judges of the first season of Canada's Drag Race. Jeffrey also hosts Includr Pod, Conversations with Others podcasts. 

Grab a coffee, and read on and enjoy this conversation with the talented artist.

So how are you? How have you been?

Oh I'm good. I'm actually really good. I feel like it was only really a couple of weeks ago that I saw you and I feel like so much has happened since then. Yes, life is good. This is my favorite time of year. I just love the shift from summer to autumn. There's something like really... I don't know, I don't want to get all like cheesy and esoteric and hippie-dippy on you all, but it just feels like it's the time of death and rebirth. And that's kind of where I'm feeling in my life right now. Like kind of putting one chapter of my life to a close, graciously and gratefully saying thank you for it, and turning into a different direction.

I love that. You're like the Phoenix right now.

Rising from the ashes, child!

Now, let's get to your character Charles Zeller on Doogie Kamealoha. How was it to play an openly gay character on a Disney Plus show? 

I'm sure you know, and many people know, that the main driving force towards me becoming an actor in the first place was to be a representation of a queer presence in television and film. 

For kids to be able to turn on their TVs and see themselves reflected in me in the same way that you and I didn't really have the privilege of turning on our TVs and seeing positive representations of queer folks. So for the past many years, I primarily played queer characters, or bi - characters or whatever it may be. But they've, for the most part, in very adult enterprises, you know- whether it's American Horror Story, or Unreal, Spiral, or The Skinny or whatever it may be. And having the opportunity to play a queer character on a much more family friendly, like tween driven show is a completely different experience. 

It's much more wholesome but I'm also that much more aware of the potential impact that it could have for the millions of kids out there who are watching the show. And being a part of a Disney plus show, the reach is so expansive. And I don't even necessarily anticipate that it's going to be this- or its immediate impact upon queer kids. I think that his presence - as bold as he may be, his presence is really quite subtle in the show. And, my hope is that years from now, people are going to be able to look back, and hopefully we'll have many seasons of the show, but hopefully they'll be able to look back at a character like this and just recognize what a blessing and what a privilege it was to have it being normalized for a queer person to be working as a series regular on a Disney show. But it's really not that big of a fucking deal, you know? 

It's really cool.   I'm so blessed to be in this position, but you know... I host this podcast called Includr Pod, my brain’s going all over the place. But we talked a lot about inclusion and one of my favorite definitions of deep inclusion that one of my guests gave me was that it's like when we don't have to talk about it anymore when it's just is...

I was just going to say, when the character just exists as you don't need to explain that you're queer, you're just there, existing.

And that's what Charles did, it's never explained that he's queer, he just is. I mean, of course, at some point, we get into his love life and get to explore those facets of who he is, but he's just very matter of fact. And it's just so cool to be playing a character like that.

It's really important- what you're doing right now, especially in terms of visibility and representation, and that's really great. So I'm pretty sure a lot of young folks will be inspired. I mean, if my younger self sees you on TV, I will be like, oh, okay, that's great. We matter! That's the feeling your character embodies so that's really amazing. 

You make me want to cry. That's so beautiful. That's really, really beautiful to be able to see. Yes, because that's really what it does come down to, is seeing versions of ourselves in the zeitgeist. It is an affirmation that we matter. That's really moving.

Absolutely. Now tell us a bit more about Charles, this Midwest transplant to Hawaii.

So his name is Dr. Charles Zeller. He's a first year medical resident at a hospital on Oahu in Hawaii. He is from the Midwest from Chicago. He is incredibly joyous, wide-eyed and optimistic. There's a sense of naiveté to him but I look at his naiveté as a true, genuine open-heartedness. He's so open to learning. He's working right alongside in the hospital of a 16-year-old medical genius Doogie Kamealoha. And I think he sees a lot of himself in her, he sees somebody who doesn't necessarily fit into any box, someone who isn't really represented in the mainstream. Somebody whose all eyes are on and everybody is constantly scrutinizing who she is and how she operates her way through the world. And I think that he has a deep level of respect and reverence for her. He can learn so much from her when it comes to her medical genius. But he very much wants to take her under his wing and be a really positive guiding force in her life when it comes to making it a safe space for her to share with the experiences of just being a teenager, just being a kid and the hardships that can come along with that. One of the most expansive and joyous things about playing him was that he is the eyes into the island for the audience. As he's learning about Hawaiian culture, and the history of the Island and the respect for oral history and ancestry and just local traditions, the audience is learning right alongside with him. And that was so much fun because I, myself had been to Hawaii several times just as a tourist, but had never spent four and a half months there before. That's the amount of time we were there filming. And I got to learn so much about the island and the history and ancestry and the respect and reverence for LGBTQ folk. The amount of love and respect paid to the Trans community and the word for transgender in native Hawaiian is Māhū, and Māhū people are held in such high respect there. The hula teachers and spiritual advisors and medicine doctors and you know, there's a real acknowledgement in the same way where I grew up in Canada, the indigenous people have a real reverence for two spirited people. People who are able to see and have a really broad objective view of the world and of the human experience from all angles, not just the male perspective or the female perspective, or a blend of the two. That was something that I was so struck by and yet something that was really familiar to me because of my upbringing. There's so much that I love about him but mostly I just love his lightness. He's such a light, joyous kind of jubilating character.

And it's great, especially as you said, you're the eyes representing the audience, showing the audience the Hawaiian culture. That's amazing. So, how was filming there like? Did you guys film during the quarantine? 

Yes

Oh wow. That's why you guys were there for four months? 

I mean, filming during a global pandemic, it was an experience that none of us had ever navigated before. It was such a blessing and such a joy because you know, myself, like all the billions of people around the world were closed at the onset of COVID. So to have this opportunity to leave my home and to go to this beautiful tropical island, and to be a part of a project that was so bright and positive and wonderful as this Disney show. I was so immediately conscious of what a great opportunity it was. We were there for four and a half months from January to June of 2021. And because the travel restrictions were so strict, in regard, in terms of bringing tourists in, the majority of the island was really inhabited by locals and by natives. And that was my first time ever experiencing Hawaii like that. I mean so many of us who have been to Hawaii know that there’s the history of colonization, and how that bleeds into current day Hawaii still. How there's a tremendous amount of white privilege- how majority of tourists who come in are wealthy white folk, or people who were there for spring break, or whatever it may be, it's not necessarily the most positive representation of white mainlanders. So to be there at a time where that wasn't the case, where I mean, truly, my first two months there, the majority of people that I would be surrounded by on the island were people of color. Anywhere, like the beach, the restaurant, the gym, on set, wherever- It was mostly people of color. A refreshing breath of air, and one that I hadn't, I didn't even know that I needed and one that I hadn't experienced since living in South Africa.

Honestly, when I was 25, it was one of the first times in my life that I had been... I wasn't the odd one out, or I wasn't the other - where I could look all around me and see reflections of myself. Not necessarily majority black folk, but people who don't necessarily have the lived experiences of the status quo. And there's a true inherent camaraderie in that, and acknowledgement of what it's like to exist in this world- when you're not always seen for who you are, based on things that are far beyond your control- your race, your gender identity, or sexual orientation, or whatever it may be. So to be in Hawaii at that time and to learn of, like I mentioned before, the reverence for Māhū people. It's not something that I was ever taught.

The importance of oral history, how so much of history in Hawaii is, it's not written down, it's oral history. It's passed from one generation to the next through storytelling. I didn't know that. The respect for ancestors, for the land, for intergenerational families. So many families in Hawaii are intergenerational. There's great grandparents and grandparents and parents and children all living in the same house. I think that I was so aware of that particular dynamic because of COVID. Because coming from the mainland where a lot of younger folk just really weren't paying attention to the dangers of this viral respiratory disease, and going out and clubbing and partying and going to the beach at Spring Break and potentially bringing home this disease to their own family members without really thinking twice about it. That wasn't the case in Hawaii. The reason the numbers were so low and the cases of COVID were so low is because people really respect one another. They respect their elders and their ancestors and their grandparents and their parents and people weren't willing to act a fool and take really reckless risks for their own temporary benefit and potentially put their loved ones in harm's way. So all of that was what I experienced my first couple of months in Hawaii, and it was something that I didn't anticipate, couldn't have seen coming. It's going to stay with me for the rest of my life.

Seems like you had this multi-layered experience- not just a cultural experience, but, it's a holistic experience that you got in there. And you telling me this makes me want to learn more about the show.  Also going back to what you said earlier about the transgender people with power, we have the same thing in the Philippines as well. 

Oh Cool.

We call them Babaylans and so learning that these things exist in different cultures, it's amazing, and it's a beautiful thing.

It is and it makes us that much more aware of the bold, revisionist history, colonialism and white folk traipsing around the world and going to different continents and countries all around the world, and just shoving these false narratives down people of colors' throat and like taking away our history and the truth of who we are at a spiritual, soul level as humans and like erasing the spectrum of humanity, really- of gender identity and sexuality and whatever it may be. I think that so many of us have, you know, the past few generations have just felt so out of place and never feel good enough. We’re always second guessing ourselves and constantly comparing ourselves to others and it's because of the foundation of that false narrative that was shoved down our throats in colonialism. You're never meant to feel good enough. You're never meant to feel that you can trust your own intuition that who you are at your soul's core is good enough or is true or right. You're never meant to trust yourself. That's the trick. That's the game itself. And I think that all of us are starting to see that the jig is up, that the old narrative that was shoved down our throats for so many centuries doesn't fit. It's not true. It doesn't feel right, it doesn't feel good. And we're starting to explore other alternatives and options that are much more true to who we are as a species.

There's a reawakening happening. And we, as artists, like you, being seen on TV helping change this narrative, is important. It's great.

I mean, you too. Having the project of "A Book Of" and showcasing queer talent and people of color in such a beautiful way, showing us in ways that you know... Inviting us into spaces that we haven't necessarily been invited to, traditionally and having the opportunity to grace the cover of magazines and have these really fabulous editorials and being made to feel beautiful and being made to feel like we are being seen and that who we are at our at our truest core is worthy of acknowledgement and worthy of celebration. It's so fucking cool.

Thank you. Thank you. Any memorable experience throughout your filming process in Hawaii? I'm pretty sure there's a lot but is there anything that sticks out?

Yes, yes, there is, but I can't give it away. It has to do with one of the episodes where it's such a huge ensemble cast. There's like 10 of us as series regulars on the show. And it's such a rare occasion that all of us get to be in the same space at the same time. And because of COVID, especially, they were ultra-mindful about keeping people really separate in our own pods. But there does come a point in the season where we all find ourselves in the same space at the same time, really celebrating Hawaiian culture and heritage and ohana, which is the native Hawaiian word for family and friends and tribe. Although it was a fictional scene that we were all filming, it just felt so real because the beauty of the show is that it really does tap into the essence of Hawaii and Hawaiian culture. Hawaii is very much, it's the 11th character on the show in the same way that New York is a character in Sex in the City and so many other shows. So that's something that really stood out to me that after being there for so many months and just having such a love for the island of Oahu to be in this really celebratory setting, with all of us celebrating ourselves and the essence of the island, it was so beautiful. Oh, another one that I can't talk about more so, but stands out, was the day we started filming. The first day we started filming in late January, early February 2021. All of the cast and all of the crew was gathered on Waimanalo beach, which is on the Northeast shore of Oahu where one of our main sets was and we were gathered there before sunrise and a native Hawaiian priest was there that did a traditional Hawaiian blessing for us. He blessed all of the cast and all of the crew, he blessed the land, he blessed our sets, he blessed the show. That was just so.. I never experienced anything like that before. And when you work on a show, or when you work on a project like "A Book Of", you really do create a little community and a little family which is something that I'm always aware of but this just puts it in such a different perspective.

It made us see this opportunity that we were embarking upon as something so much bigger than ourselves as having the opportunity to really create something so special. And every choice that we make, and every ounce of energy that we bring into the show is going to trickle out and affect millions of people all around the world as they tune in and watch our show and that was just such a beautiful way to embark on this journey together.

That's amazing. Just Imagining it, it's giving me shivers. It's really beautiful.

Yes, I think ABC posted photos of it online somewhere. It's so cool. Yes, it was so cool. 

With your impressive resume of playing iconic queer roles in film and television, what are the major challenges and the highs that you've experienced so far and how were you able to rise above these challenges?

What are some of the challenges I have experienced and the highs so far? That if you're going to believe the good, you have to believe the bad. So I choose to believe in neither. That humans have this really sick fascination or tendency to lift people up on a pedestal only to joyously in such a celebratory manner watch them fall, or cause them to fall. Getting to see that, and experience that firsthand is just, it's so bizarre. I don't know, I mean, I've always been so supportive, and celebratory of anybody who's bold enough to be their truest self to be all of themselves, good, bad, and ugly, and put that out there in public view. So celebratory of all of my queer peers, who are brave enough to go out and be openly queer in a deeply homophobic world- to play queer characters in television and film, to celebrate queer culture, or my black friends who really focus on celebrating black culture and Black History in the public eye and in the fictional world of television and film. There's a tremendous amount of courage that it takes to be bold enough to go out there in the world, and speak truth to power and to share the lived experiences of marginalized individuals. And it's such a tragedy and a pity that so many people in such a cowardly manner will sit at home, behind the safety of their keyboards and try to systematically tear us down. There's a quote by Roosevelt that so many people are familiar with - the man in the arena. Where it talks about how it's not the critic who counts, it's the man who is bold enough to go out into the arena and get bloody and bruised and bloody, and really put themselves out there to make change in the world. [“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better."]

And unless you're willing to jump in that arena, and get bloody and bruised with us and mindfully and consciously make change in the world and push us forward in an evolutionary manner as a species then shut up! I don't want to hear what you have to say and none of us want to hear what you have to say. I think that the internet has provided a voice for the voiceless, on mass across the world, which is a really beautiful thing. Everybody deserves a voice. Not everybody deserves a loudspeaker and a microphone. I think, that where we currently are in this world of celebrity and social media, and going back to the conversation before of colonization, and white privilege, and systemic racism, everybody really desperately wants to be seen and acknowledged, and it feels like people are willing to go about being acknowledged in the most toxic of ways.

And we come to a point, as humans, where we just accept it. We just accept that for what it is and in that acceptance of allowing hate and vitriol and violent rhetoric and homophobia and racism and transphobia, and all of the above, to be such a part of the common collective of our common vocabulary as a species. It's really eating away at our souls, I think that we really need a revolution of empathy and compassion. It's really lacking in this world. And I think that it's quite obvious to all of us, but when you're in a position where you're just a human being who happens to be in the public eye and people have a direct line to you through your art, it becomes really obvious very quickly, how dark and how toxic we have become as a species, and I don't think that it's natural in us. 

I think that it's something that's been cultivated, and something that has been very consciously planted and that has been watered and nurtured by people who do not have good intentions and who are continuing to benefit from our own downfall as a species, so... All I know is this is what I've experienced the past couple of years and continuing to work in the entertainment industry. I mean, I wouldn't change you know..., as much as some of it hurts and it should have worked differently, I'm still very grateful for where I am and what I've accomplished, and how far I've come and who I've become, and the lessons that I've learned. And yes, I mean, with a lot of privilege and blessings comes a lot of bullshit. But I think that as I've experienced more and more bullshit, it's just provided contrast for me to be able to see myself more clearly and to be able to differentiate between things that people are saying about me that are true and things that I know absolutely to be untrue. You know, when you kind of find the after truth in that.

I was just about to say, contrast provides clarity. 

Yes!

Any valuable lessons that you've learned throughout these years that you still carry with you?

Wow, you're really making me think. That's... Wow, it's very rare that people ask me questions where I'm stumped, where I really have to think about it. What a fascinating question. No, it's great. It's such a...

I guess a quote, an affirmation that has been repeated mentally and verbally by myself for the past decade or maybe longer than a decade now at this point was a quote that I heard over a decade ago from Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and Oprah Winfrey repeated it as well as an affirmation, but it goes; use me God or universe or Gaia or whatever you want to know, attribute the source of life to. Use me, God, show me how to take who I am, who I want to be, and what I can do and use it for a purpose greater than myself. 

When I first started repeating that to myself when I was like 22 years old, it was an intention. Because I was just starting to be really clear that if I was going to act, I would really only want to play queer characters. But it was beyond playing queer characters it was to be used for a purpose greater than myself. And as time has gone on, and I'm living that intention, it's really just as I repeat that quote to myself daily, it's just become an affirmation that, that is what I am here to do, to be used for a purpose greater than myself. And it doesn't necessarily have to be in the form of television and film and me playing queer characters. It doesn't have to be on such a large grand scale. It can literally just be in the small, everyday interactions and choices that I make in my daily life. To be used for a purpose greater than myself.

I love that. It's so beautiful.

You can use it child, you can use it. That's what it’s for.

I know..., I love that.

Yes, me too.

Final question for you. If you were a book, what book would you be and why? It could be a made up book, it could be an already existing title. You can create anything. 

I'm going to say something, so it may sound so cheesy but...

I love it, go for it. 

Okay, there's a poem written by Paul Laurence Dunbar in the 1800s. He was an African American poet. And a quote from that poem that was used as the title of Maya Angelou’s first memoir; I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings. I'm going to cry. Don't make me cry. I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings, because I know what it feels like to be born into an environment or a system that is so oppressive where all eyes are on you and yet as much as people are trying to hold you down, there's still so much expected of you and there's only so far that you can go when your wings can't expand. That singing that the caged bird is doing is like a desperate cry for help. It's an exclamation of their soul saying that I am here and I am capable of so much more than what you all are affording me and when that cage door is opened, that desperate plea is instantly transformed into a really joyous song of freedom and the truest echo of your soul song. So yes, I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings and that's why.

I love that. Thank you so much. 

You're a freaky one. How did you start asking these questions? Are those staple questions that you ask in your interviews? 

Well, the only staple question is the book part. I want to ask that towards the end of my interviews. But the rest, I just kind of just go with your stories.

It’s really good, Irvin. Honestly. I have another podcast called Conversations with Others where I talk to people from all walks of life, but with a lot of celebrities. And really, I started that show because I was so sick of the same bullshit answers or questions that I was being asked in the media and press. I was like, I don't want to talk about this shit. I want to talk about the process of developing the character on the show. I want to talk about who you are, and why you became this way, what your soul's journey was, tell me about your lived experiences. Tell me about your hardest times in life. Tell me about the real shit that other people are going to be able to listen to the show and see themselves and say like, Oh my god, me too, and not feel so alone. And that's what this just reminded me of. You have that ability. You're really good at that.

Thank you, Jeffrey. Thank you. Appreciate it.

DOOGIE KAMEALOHA IS NOW STERAMING ON DISNEY PLUS